The recent essay on AI by Ted Chiang is good at focusing on art as decisions we make:
“When photography was first developed, I suspect it didn’t seem like an artistic medium because it wasn’t apparent that there were a lot of choices to be made; you just set up the camera and start the exposure. But over time people realized that there were a vast number of things you could do with cameras, and the artistry lies in the many choices that a photographer makes. It might not always be easy to articulate what the choices are, but when you compare an amateur’s photos to a professional’s, you can see the difference.”
this is an interesting topic but i cannot decide for one or the other and my explanation is simple: when at rugby matches, things happens so fast that most of the time i don't have time to compose and think what to leave in or out of the frame, so i'm taking a photo.
when working in studio and a client just tells me what they want and leave the rest to me, i'm making the photo (no art director involved) to please/suits client needs.
as a result, my approach to this topic is: i'm not taking a photo, i'm not making a photo, i'm just photographing.
Interesting thoughts, Marcel. In a similar vein, I like this quotation by Markéta Luskačová:
“In the Czech language, the verb to photograph means to immortalise. When I came to Britain in 1975, I was shocked to learn that in English, the equivalent is to shoot.”
Yes, in Dutch we also you the word 'shoot' (schiet), but the discussion mainly focusses on take or make. Let's not overcomplicate this (semantic) discussion.
I agree with your statement, "I believe we take photographs because these images are already out there, waiting for us to capture them." We take an image from the world into our camera. But then we make an image out of that. We take a photograph, and we make art from it.
I have used "take" a photo for so long, I don't always think to say I "make" a photo. When I think of taking a photo, I think of capturing a moment in time with my camera. It is something I take. This, I also use the terms capture and shoot, and I know they aren't part of the discussion, however, they are to me synonymous with take. I can relate to the comment below about making a photo when it is edited. I see more and more photographers using the term "make". One day I might use it more too.
This is a good question! It is mostly semantics, you're right Marcel. I differentiate as you do; when I am making something out of it that is not currently in the scene, I make the photo but when I am a passerby, a voyeur, I take the photo.
Hmmm, I like this. I think that specially in a world where photography often seems like an "easier art form," rephrasing "taking" a photo to "making" it really encompasses the way of thinking and seeing that a photographer needs to have in order to actually grow in our craft. Despite this, I feel weird in saying that I'm making a photo, especially within the context of street photography, where the role is to capture what you see.
Interesting..... I make photographs, as I compose and frame; decide what to include and what to leave out, I adjust my settings to capture the light and shadows as I would like them expressed in the image that I make (b+w film), and finally, in the darkroom, I make a print. Make all the way. I have always thought 'taking' is an aggressive and unpleasant word that reflects something done without permission, but maybe that is just me. Finally, I am surprised you have not included 'shoot', as that is even more aggressive and is all together wrong..... but that's just me! ;0)
Take a photo, to me, is the act of snapping a picture, while make a photo makes me think of processing an image in lightroom or whatever software one uses. Take is an instant, make takes more time.
Interesting topic, seems I'm not the only one with this opinion. Even chatgpt is on my side Marcel ... Its answer below.
👇
The difference between "taking" a photo and "making" a photo lies in the intention and creative process behind the image:
1. **Taking a Photo**: This typically refers to the act of capturing a moment as it naturally occurs. It involves pointing the camera at a subject and pressing the shutter button without much planning or creative intervention. The emphasis is on documenting reality as it is, often spontaneously.
2. **Making a Photo**: This implies a more deliberate and creative process. It involves planning, composing, and often manipulating the elements of the scene (like lighting, positioning subjects, or even editing afterward) to achieve a specific vision or artistic expression. The photographer is actively shaping the image, not just recording it.
In summary, "taking" a photo is more about capturing what is in front of you, while "making" a photo is about creating an image with intention and creativity.
Haha, still I stick with taking what's already there in front of you. Frame it, compose it and shoot. You don't make the photo by editing it. That's just editing a taken photo.
That is exactly what I said above. The image was taken, when it appeared in front of Elliott's view. He might have cropped it (don't know if he did) but the image was there when he took it. It is just edited to his liking.
I think we're talking past eachother, but I understand and respect your opinion. I would argue that the image was only "made" as a direct consequence of the extreme crop. Before that it was a totally different image (and yes he did crop it significantly. I'll try and find the uncropped image to illustrate my point)
For me, it depends on what I'm doing. When I have limited control, as in sports or wildlife, I'm "taking". Even then I could argue with myself about it, because I still have _some_ control, i.e. composition, shutter speed, exposure, DOF, lens length, and more. But it still feels like I'm "taking" when I don't control the elements.
The shorter answer would be:
If I can't direct it, I'm taking it. If I can direct it, I'm making it.
If I had to choose only one answer, I'd say everything is made. Going back to all the choices about how an image might be obtained in the first place.
I agree. I, personally, always think of it as taking a picture. Or I sometimes refer to it as snapping or clicking a pic. I might then decide to “make” the image look a certain way when I edit but I still always refer to capturing the moment as taking a picture. I just can’t get my mouth (or fingers) say (write) the alternative phrase when I talk about my own process. 😃
The recent essay on AI by Ted Chiang is good at focusing on art as decisions we make:
“When photography was first developed, I suspect it didn’t seem like an artistic medium because it wasn’t apparent that there were a lot of choices to be made; you just set up the camera and start the exposure. But over time people realized that there were a vast number of things you could do with cameras, and the artistry lies in the many choices that a photographer makes. It might not always be easy to articulate what the choices are, but when you compare an amateur’s photos to a professional’s, you can see the difference.”
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-weekend-essay/why-ai-isnt-going-to-make-art
this is an interesting topic but i cannot decide for one or the other and my explanation is simple: when at rugby matches, things happens so fast that most of the time i don't have time to compose and think what to leave in or out of the frame, so i'm taking a photo.
when working in studio and a client just tells me what they want and leave the rest to me, i'm making the photo (no art director involved) to please/suits client needs.
as a result, my approach to this topic is: i'm not taking a photo, i'm not making a photo, i'm just photographing.
Very interesting to read everyone's take and what they make of the subject.
...see what I did there? 😉
haha, you're such a comedian ;-)
✌️
I’ve given up trying to figure out the correct answer (if there is one) to this perennial question.
Interesting thoughts, Marcel. In a similar vein, I like this quotation by Markéta Luskačová:
“In the Czech language, the verb to photograph means to immortalise. When I came to Britain in 1975, I was shocked to learn that in English, the equivalent is to shoot.”
Yes, in Dutch we also you the word 'shoot' (schiet), but the discussion mainly focusses on take or make. Let's not overcomplicate this (semantic) discussion.
I agree with your statement, "I believe we take photographs because these images are already out there, waiting for us to capture them." We take an image from the world into our camera. But then we make an image out of that. We take a photograph, and we make art from it.
This has encouraged me to deep dive into my thoughts in this. Stay tuned. In short, it depends....
I have used "take" a photo for so long, I don't always think to say I "make" a photo. When I think of taking a photo, I think of capturing a moment in time with my camera. It is something I take. This, I also use the terms capture and shoot, and I know they aren't part of the discussion, however, they are to me synonymous with take. I can relate to the comment below about making a photo when it is edited. I see more and more photographers using the term "make". One day I might use it more too.
This is a good question! It is mostly semantics, you're right Marcel. I differentiate as you do; when I am making something out of it that is not currently in the scene, I make the photo but when I am a passerby, a voyeur, I take the photo.
Hmmm, I like this. I think that specially in a world where photography often seems like an "easier art form," rephrasing "taking" a photo to "making" it really encompasses the way of thinking and seeing that a photographer needs to have in order to actually grow in our craft. Despite this, I feel weird in saying that I'm making a photo, especially within the context of street photography, where the role is to capture what you see.
Interesting..... I make photographs, as I compose and frame; decide what to include and what to leave out, I adjust my settings to capture the light and shadows as I would like them expressed in the image that I make (b+w film), and finally, in the darkroom, I make a print. Make all the way. I have always thought 'taking' is an aggressive and unpleasant word that reflects something done without permission, but maybe that is just me. Finally, I am surprised you have not included 'shoot', as that is even more aggressive and is all together wrong..... but that's just me! ;0)
Haha, I was thinking about that. Like that quote 'I shoot people, I frame them and sometime behead them as well'
Good one!!!
Take a photo, to me, is the act of snapping a picture, while make a photo makes me think of processing an image in lightroom or whatever software one uses. Take is an instant, make takes more time.
Interesting topic, seems I'm not the only one with this opinion. Even chatgpt is on my side Marcel ... Its answer below.
👇
The difference between "taking" a photo and "making" a photo lies in the intention and creative process behind the image:
1. **Taking a Photo**: This typically refers to the act of capturing a moment as it naturally occurs. It involves pointing the camera at a subject and pressing the shutter button without much planning or creative intervention. The emphasis is on documenting reality as it is, often spontaneously.
2. **Making a Photo**: This implies a more deliberate and creative process. It involves planning, composing, and often manipulating the elements of the scene (like lighting, positioning subjects, or even editing afterward) to achieve a specific vision or artistic expression. The photographer is actively shaping the image, not just recording it.
In summary, "taking" a photo is more about capturing what is in front of you, while "making" a photo is about creating an image with intention and creativity.
Haha, still I stick with taking what's already there in front of you. Frame it, compose it and shoot. You don't make the photo by editing it. That's just editing a taken photo.
You take a photo when you release the shutter. You make a photo when you edit and display/print it.
Agree on the first one, but why does editing an image suddenly 'make a photo' instead of 'editing a photo'?
Because I think in the editing you shape what you want the final form of the photo to be, so in a sense you're "making" it.
Well, I believe you're just adjusting an - already taken - image to your liking, so does not change the fact that the image is already there.
Was this image made in the taking or in the extreme crop in the edit? I would posit the latter: https://aperturewp.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Erwitt-Elliott.jpg
That is exactly what I said above. The image was taken, when it appeared in front of Elliott's view. He might have cropped it (don't know if he did) but the image was there when he took it. It is just edited to his liking.
I think we're talking past eachother, but I understand and respect your opinion. I would argue that the image was only "made" as a direct consequence of the extreme crop. Before that it was a totally different image (and yes he did crop it significantly. I'll try and find the uncropped image to illustrate my point)
For me, it depends on what I'm doing. When I have limited control, as in sports or wildlife, I'm "taking". Even then I could argue with myself about it, because I still have _some_ control, i.e. composition, shutter speed, exposure, DOF, lens length, and more. But it still feels like I'm "taking" when I don't control the elements.
The shorter answer would be:
If I can't direct it, I'm taking it. If I can direct it, I'm making it.
If I had to choose only one answer, I'd say everything is made. Going back to all the choices about how an image might be obtained in the first place.
I agree. I, personally, always think of it as taking a picture. Or I sometimes refer to it as snapping or clicking a pic. I might then decide to “make” the image look a certain way when I edit but I still always refer to capturing the moment as taking a picture. I just can’t get my mouth (or fingers) say (write) the alternative phrase when I talk about my own process. 😃
The art of photography is that of " creating an image"
True. In the end it is about the image, not how it was made it with what camera.